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This is FUD, that has no basis in fact, nor does it have a basis in law.""What exactly do you think DRM does? Have you taken a look at the DMCA ever?from ""The Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) is a United States copyright law which criminalizes production and dissemination of technology that can circumvent measures taken to protect copyright, not merely infringement of copyright itself, and heightens the penalties for copyright infringement on the Internet. Passed on May 14, 1998 by a unanimous vote in the United States Senate and signed into law by President Bill Clinton on October 28, 1998, the DMCA amended title 17 of the US Code to extend the reach of copyright, while limiting the liability of Online Providers from copyright infringement by their users.""All 100% fact.What this effectively makes it completely illegal to attempt to, or tell people about, or distribute programs or software, that circumvent any sort of digital copyright protection scemes IRREGARDLESS of the user's intention.So what DRM does is provide a way to control what software you are and are not allowed to run on your computer by wrapping it in the notion that these restrictions are intended to protect copyrighted material.For instance you have 'FairPlay' versions Windows Media Video 10. These are DRM encrusted media files we are told are intended to protect the copyrights of various artists who produce music.Now effectively due to the DMCA it is ILLEGAL to play these files on Linux. Because in order to do that you have to break the DRM encryption to do so and if your a 'pirate' you could use the same software that plays back music to copy music. Thusly enabling support of FairPlay in Linux with open source software is a U.S. Federal crime.Now this DOES NOTHING TO STOP PIRACY. People have found easy ways to work around DRM restrictions and provide content on the internet. Once one copy is out there then anybody can find it and download it. Effectively DRM delays music being 'stolen' by a matter of minutes.What it does accomplish though is it allows Microsoft to try to convince folks like the RIAA to sell music under their Fairplay DRM. Once people purchase the music then Microsoft, protected by the U.S. Federal Government, can now dictate to these people what software and operating systems they are allowed to use to to play back the music they purchased and what sort of other audio devices they are allowed to use.Apple does a similar thing with their DRM'd Itunes service. They restrict people from licensing their DRM technology for MP3 players and such and they don't let other people create software to play it. If somebody from another country with no DMCA-like restrictions creates a compatable player or software then Apple will change the format of the DRM to effectively break their software or hardware. It does not have anything to do with protecting from piracy because Apple themselves allow end users to burn cdrom copies of music with no loss of fidality. The time it takes for a new song on Itunes to appear on the internet in a P2p site is measured in _minutes_.So this does NOTHING to stop piracy. However because Apple says its a digital encryption intended to protect copyright then they now are protected by government law and can now control what software, what operating systems, what media devices, you are allowed to listen to music you purchase from them.Basicly they are using DRM to make return customers of Ipods.Same thing with the HDCP from Intel and friends.HDCP is 'high definition copyright protection'. It is a encryption sceme for hardware they claim intended to 'protect' High definition content from being copied. HDCP, however, seemed to be a rather weak encryption method and was cracked years ago. So it accomplishes absolutely nothing in preventing real piracy. Remember once you get one or two copies of unencrypted data on the internet it's easily aviable to millions and millions of users. For people with high speed internet it's easier and quicker to steal ex-drm'd content off the internet then it is to go down to the store and buy a new dvd.However what it effectively does is this. That when you go out and in the near future by a High-Def or Blueray DVD it will probably have HDCP protections.In order to legally play it back you will be required to purchase a special DVD player (no suprises), purchase a motherboard with a 'encrypted media path', purchase Vista 64bit (32bit won't work), purchase a new video card that support the protected media path, and purchase a new video monitor that supports HDCP.Even though in other countries you can buy devices to circumvent this and allow older hardwar to work, in the United States it is illegal to produce or distribute or buy or use those devices because they could possibly be used to circumvent the 'protections' and allow 'piracy'.OR if you want to use a HD dvd, if you got one now it probably won't work with HDCP protected content. You'll have to buy a new one.It won't work with any HD television you may own right now either.. You'll have to by a new one.It's a huge freaking scam. Over and over and over again any time you see 'DRM' it turns out to be almost exactly like the above.HOWEVER NOTHING IN THE GPLv3 does anything about that. Nothing at all.As far as Dinsey and 'Americanism' goes.. Disney sucks. I am proud to be American and am pretty freaking conservative. It's just a snow job that they are for family values and such nowadays. That was over in the 60's. The Disney corporation owns many many major music recording, television, and movie studios. A lot of it produces the most vile anti-american, anti-family, BS you ever heard. And they'll happily do it as long as it sells and it doesn't get associated with the Disney name. It's not that they are anti-anything, they are just very pro-money. They do what sells. Now I am pro-money, pro-profit, pro-capitolism and all that, but I like to think that I am somewhat moral about it how I go about it. Similar in spirit? Posted Oct 5, 2006 6:08 UTC (Thu) by drag (guest, #31333) [Link]
I find it hard to take you seriously. If you are trolling, I'm sorry I'm contibuting.There are many examples of DRM abuses. Look a ebooks, defunct music downloads which no longer work because the company went out of business, etc.If people had no problem with DRM, why do DRM devices always go away when there is a non-DRM version with the same features? Sony had to give in. Their portable music players wouldn't play non-DRM music so nobody bought them.The GPL is not law, it is a license. If people don't want to abide by its rules they don't have to. But then they can't use the software. You can't incorportate other people's code into a product just because you are "job providing" or "upstanding". You have to have their permission. Similar in spirit? Posted Oct 5, 2006 20:35 UTC (Thu) by mrfredsmoothie (guest, #3100) [Link]
On your point 0: the checksum list is maintained by the media distributor, so there is no need for a master key.Also, you seem to have made some interpretation I didn't intend about what's in the media player binary. At least, I don't know what "sequences 'lifted' from an Hollywood media" refers to. What I had in mind is simply that the media player only plays files signed by the media distributor's public key and enforces use restrictions specified in the files. If I offered such a binary (along with its sources) on my web site, having no relationship with any device manufacturer or media distributor, just to be ornery, surely I wouldn't be violating any license. Similar in spirit? Posted Oct 7, 2006 12:38 UTC (Sat) by nim-nim (subscriber, #34454) [Link]
I hesitate to reply to you here because you still haven't addressed any of my points elsewhere. To the best of my knowledge, I've addressed each of your points, and I'm hoping you'll do me the same favor.It's interesting that you quote Stallman here, and so has Jonathan. I regret that upon reading the interview Jonathan /did/ thankfully link as the source of the quote, it seems that too much context may have been removed to discuss Stallman's position with absolute fidelity. I would thus encourage you to click the Wayback link and read at least the last question on the page (the one in which the quote you address is included). To quote Stallman further:> But I don't think that's where the social and political issues arise.> Those arise where the computers are visible to the user as computers.> We can load software into them. We have thus the possibility of sharing> and changing software. And then it becomes a significant question> whether we are allowed to do so or whether we are blocked from doing> so.The Tivo is a good deal different from a microwave oven because its software is not burned into ROM. In fact, in many ways, it is a personal computer - it has a hard drive, USB port, some models have an ethernet controller... and so it should be no shock or surprise that the many hackers who have managed to defeat Tivo's fortunately broken attempt at violating Freedom #1 have organized into the same hacker communities that make free software possible:- is one of countless sites on the subject that Google presents when queried.I don't think a microwave oven would be likely to ever fall into this category. For one thing, its software will probably be in ROM for a while further; for another, it doesn't have much need for a computer aside from presenting a very trivial user interface. Additionally, there isn't much interesting work you can make a microwave do aside from cooking food, and there doesn't seem to be much opportunity to improve that behavior through software anyway.But it's not just Tivo we should be worried about. Think about another example where this issue of the difference between embedded systems and computers is quickly getting blurred:- This project is a GPL-licensed firmware replacement for MP3 players from a number of manufacturers. It has substantially more features, and to some, the more important property of _freedom_ (which includes the ability to play free codecs) than the manufacturer-provided firmware on various devices. It even has the amazing property of being portable to a number of different devices in an area of the market where product similarity is incidental rather than a system like PCs where compatibility is essential and thusly documented and practiced.I hope I'm not the first free software developer to ask this question, but what of Rockbox? I can't seem to find any substantial references to GPLv3 in the context of what the Rockbox developers think, but given that they are deliberately targeted at embedded devices only, I have a sneaking suspicion that the GPLv3 is about to become absolutely essential for the continued freedom of their project.How long before the manufacturers of MP3 players realize they can take Rockbox, port it, sprinkle on their _music_ DRM layer and then stamp on their _software_ DRM layer to prevent anyone but them from changing the license? They can then proceed to stamp out millions of these bastardized players using the hard work of the Rockbox developers that were fighting to make _FREEDOM_ and they can stamp that property of the market out right out in short order.I know you're not a Rockbox developer. Neither am I. But since you argue very strongly that the FSF needs to stop what it is doing with the license that you have a choice of _not using_, I think you ought to tell us what you think these Rockbox guys should do about their little problem.Despite Stallman's great crystal ball, it seems the world still changes in surprising new ways that are often good for society. Free software is definitely a driving force in that movement. But given the fidelity of what Mr. Stallman's crystal ball has shown us in the past, we'd be complete fools to shatter it while busy arguing about how many bones we saw through the grim reaper's robe.And I further hope that you won't drop the other thread of discussion we have going. I did spend a great deal of time thinking about what you had to say, and I tried to do my best in fairly addressing your argument. Stallman's quote in real context Posted Oct 6, 2006 14:32 UTC (Fri) by cventers (guest, #31465) [Link] 2b1af7f3a8